| Record ID | cp010635 |
| Voet reference number | 1081 |
| Museum Plantin-Moretus | c:lvd:1115085 |
| Uniform title | DIALOGUES FRANCOIS [ET FLAMANDS] |
| Title page transcription | LA ‖ PREMIERE, ET ‖ LA ‖ SECONDE PARTIE ‖ DES DIALOGVES ‖ FRANCOIS, ‖ POVR LES IEVNES ENFANS. ‖ HET EERSTE ENDE TWEEDE ‖ deel van de Françoische t'samensprekinghen, ouer- ‖ gheset in de nederduytsche spraecke. ‖ ⊕ 18 ‖ A ANVERS. ‖ De l'imprimerie de Christophle Plantin. ‖ M.D.LXVII. ‖ AVEC PRIVILEGE. |
| Collation | 8⁰ (146 × 95): A-Q⁸; pages 1-255, [256] (Errors: 110 for 100, 38 for 138, 187 for 186, 186 for 187, 180-181 for 200-201, 184-185 for 204-205, 188 for 208, 20 for 220, 124 for 224) |
| Fingerprint | 156708 - # b1 A2 'im : # b2 Q4 hy$sul |
| Number of sheets | 16 |
| Pages | [1]: Title 2: Privilege (Brussels, Privy Council, 28 May 1566, signed by I. Van der Aa; Council of Brabant, 8 June 1566, s. I. de Witte) 3-9: Aux…messigneurs les bourghemaistres, eschevins, et prudent senat de la tres-renommée ville d'Anvers, S. (s. Christophle Plantin; italic type, words in roman type) 10-14: Christophle Plantin imprimeur aux prudens et experts maistres d'écolles, et tous autres qui s'employent à enseigner la langue Françoise (italic type) 14-15: Le mesme aux ieunes enfans de bon naturel (italic type, words in roman type) 16-176: Text (on even pages French text in civilité type, parts in roman type; on uneven pages Dutch text in roman type, parts in civilité type) 177: Christophle Plantin à tous ceux qui se voudront servir de ce livret pour la cognoissance de la langue Françoise (Antwerp, 18 December 1566) 178-255: Text (on even pages: French text in italic type; on uneven pages: Dutch text in roman type) [256]: Blank |
| Edition information | |
| Copies | Museum Plantin-Moretus- R 22.29- R 55.14Bibliothèque nationale de France- Res. page x, 394 |
| Bibliographical references | Not in Ruelens-de Backer.Cockx-Indestege, E. Belgica typographica 5620 |
| Online bibliographical references | STCV c:stcv:12914448 |
| Note 1 | Series of 'dialogues' in French with Dutch translation, for teaching French in the schools [of the Dutch speaking parts of the Netherlands]. The first part includes 7 'dialogues': Le lict, et les habitz (16-29), La priere (30-46/47), La table ou le repas des escoliers (46/47-69), Le meuble commun de la salle et de la chambre (70-80/81), De ne laisser l'estude (80/81-102/103), L'ingratitude (102/103-108/109), L'ingratitude encore (108/109-111). The second part has 6 'dialogues': L'estude (112-114/115), De faire le commandement du maistre (114/115-121), Des divers noms imposez aux parties du corps (122-133), Le Livre (134-138/139), L'écritoire (138/139-147), La prononciation et les accens (148-176). As a kind of appendix to the second part are added three other 'dialogues': Les nombres (dialogue VII: 178-192/193, La musique (dialogue VIII: 192/193-217), L'écriture et l'imprimerie (dialogue IX: 218-255). |
| Note 2 | In the letter of Plantin 'à tous ceux qui se voudront servir de ce livret pour la cognaissance de la langue Françoise' (page 177), the typographer says clearly enough that in publishing the first two series his hand had been forced ('Ayant à la suasion de quelques miens amis contre ma deliberation [qui estoit de mettre premierement en lumiere nos Dictionnaires et Grammaires] commencé d'imprimer les premieres parties des Dialogues François…'). But having started the publication he was persuaded to add four other dialogues (in fact three dialogues, but the last one - L'écriture et l'imprimerie - forming in fact two distinct pieces), which he had reserved with some others for a series [of dialogues] on sciences, trades, and merchandises. It may, consequently, be supposed that the initiative to this publication came not from Plantin, but that the project must have been conceived by one of his partners, more especially Cornells van Bomberghen (see further in Notes). When the work was nearly finished Plantin decided upon making the publication somewhat more bulky by adding three other dialogues, which had been prepared in the meantime, or were especially written for the occasion. |
| Note 3 | The author or authors are not quoted in the work, but the Plantinian archives give some information. The man who made the first two series of the French 'dialogues' was the French physician Jacques Grévin, then living in Paris: on 30 June 1565 is noted the payment of 5 florins Carolus guilders on his account by way of Pierre Porret, Plantin's 'brother' and chemist in Paris (Arch. 3, folio 32: 'Les colloques du langage francois débiteur à casse. J'ay receu p[our] compte de mon frère Me. Pierre Porret qu'il a payé à Me. Jaques Grevin à bon compte sur les Colloques qu'il faict du langage francois: 5 florins Carolus guilders'). The Dutch translation of these parts was made by Plantin's partner, Cornelis van Bomberghen (who, consequently, may be supposed to have taken the initiative for this publication); as can be deduced from the entry in Arch. 3, folio 46 (cf. also Arch. 37, folio 9): '9 Mars 1566. Colloques de langage franc. débiteur à casse. J'ay payé à Me. Martin [probably Martin Everaert, who did some Dutch translations for Plantin in those years] pour avoir copie la traduction de M. Corn. de Bomb[erghen] en flameng desd. Colloques' (the amount is not filled in; the entry has not been repeated in the cost-accounting note, of which more below). Who made the additional dialogues is more difficult to ascertain. It has been supposed by M. Rooses, J.W. Enschedé, and R. Nash (see further in text: note 5), that at least the dialogue on writing and printing was written by Plantin himself. To their arguments can be added that in one entry in the Plantinian catalogues the typographer is formally given as the author (see note 8). The Dutch translation of this section must have been made by Pieter Kerkhovius who received on 20 December 1566 'Pour la version du reste des Dialogues francois' 3 florins Carolus guilders 10 stuivers (Arch. 31, folio 91; cf. also Arch. 4, folio 95). |
| Note 4 | The cost-accounting note in Arch. 4, folio 95, gives the following details about 'Colloques du langaige francois': the note starts with the entry that on 30 June 1565 5 florins Carolus guilders had been paid to Me. Jaques Grevin 'des colloques qu'il faict'. For composing and printing the quires B-F are entered, on 23 November 1566, 7 florins Carolus guilders 11 stuivers (including 1 florins Carolus guilders 1 stuivers '[pour] affustage'), and for composing and printing quires G-Q, on 19 January 1567, 14 florins Carolus guilders With the 3 florins Carolus guilders 10 stuivers paid to Kerkhovius 'pour le reste de la version' the post comes to 25 florins Carolus guilders 1 stuivers Of the edition 1,500 copies were printed. As each copy contains 16 quires, 50 reams of paper (including 2 reams of 'imperfections') 'à la couronne' were used, which, at 1 florins Carolus guilders per ream, came to 50 florins Carolus guilders To these 75 florins Carolus guilders 1 stuivers for wages and paper were added a not further detailed amount of 14 florins Carolus guilders 16 stuivers (probably including the 5 florins Carolus guilders paid to Grevin, the sums earned by the authors, translators, and/or scribes as Martin Everaert, and the amount for printing quire A), bringing the overall costs to 89 florins Carolus guilders 17 stuivers 'Parquoy revient un [peu] plus de [1 1/7 stuivers] la pièce. Baillé en compte le 16 Aoust 1567'. |
| Note 5 | The 'dialogue' on the 'imprimerie' being the first of its kind had attracted the attention of the specialists, and is often reproduced. The first to study it in detail was J.W. Enschedé, 'Vlaamsche drukkerswoorden in 1567' in Tijdschrift voor Boek- en Bibliotheekwezen, 5, 1907, pages 176-192. R. Nash had it twice edited with an English translation and very interesting notes: An account of calligraphy and printing in the sixteenth century from dialogues attributed to Christopher Plantin. Printed and published by him at Antwerp in 1567. French and Flemish text in facsimile, English translation and notes, Cambridge (Mass.), 1940; Calligraphy and printing in the sixteenth century. Dialogue attributed to Christopher Plantin in French and Flemish facsimile. Edited with English translation and notes, Antwerp, 1964. Cf. also L. Voet, The Golden Compasses, II, passim. |
| Note 6 | The introductory poems by Plantin are reproduced in Suppl. Corr., nos. 263-265. |
| Note 7 | Of the 'Dialogues Francois Flamends' 81 copies were still in stock in the Plantin Press in 1642 (cf. L. Voet, The Golden Compasses, II, page 459). |
| Note 8 | The edition is entered in M 296, folio 4r, as 'Colloques francois flameng pre[miere] et 2e partie p[ar] Plantin, f[euilles] 16, [price:] stuivers 2', which means that Plantin was considered to be the author of at least some of the 'colloques'. M 164, folio 7v, has a similar entry but without quoting Plantin: 'Colloques françois-flameng 1e et 2e p[artie], f[euilles] 16, [price:] stuivers 2'. In M 296, folio 5r, is another entry which probably refers to this edition: 'Dialogues fra[ncois] flam[eng], f[euilles] -, [price:] stuivers 3'. |
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